Fake Love and Flying Monkeys
The podcast where Fake Love is exposed. Welcome to Fake Love and Flying Monkeys! Hosted by Nova Gibson, Principal Counsellor at Brighter Outlook Narcissistic Abuse Counselling, this podcast is dedicated to helping you navigate the pain and confusion of toxic relationships, and emotional abuse, especially those involving a suspected or undiagnosed narcissist.
Nova brings years of expertise as a specialist trauma-informed counsellor, guiding survivors of narcissistic abuse to become the experts in their own trauma. In relationships where narcissists rarely, if ever, seek a diagnosis—believing there is nothing wrong with their behaviour—it’s vital for survivors to gain clarity, validation, and the tools needed to heal.
Through candid conversations, expert insights, and practical strategies, Nova and her guests unpack the manipulative tactics of emotional abuse, from gaslighting and control to triangulation and smear campaigns. Whether you’re dealing with a narcissistic partner, parent, coworker, or friend, Fake Love and Flying Monkeys empowers you to identify the patterns, set healthy boundaries, and rebuild your confidence after years of self-doubt and emotional exhaustion.
This podcast doesn’t just shine a light on the hidden dynamics of narcissistic abuse—it hands you the torch to take back your power. You’ll learn to validate your experiences, protect your mental health, and break free from the toxic cycle, even without the confirmation of a formal diagnosis.
If you’ve ever felt trapped, silenced, or unsure of how to move forward, this is your safe space. Nova’s compassionate, down-to-earth approach ensures you’re not just heard—you’re understood.
Tune in to Fake Love and Flying Monkeys and discover the tools you need to expose the fake love in your life, reclaim your worth, and step into a future of peace and empowerment. Visit www.brighteroutlookcounselling.com.au to learn more, leave a review, and grab Nova’s book, Fake Love – Understanding and Healing from Narcissistic Abuse. It’s time to rewrite your story.
Fake Love and Flying Monkeys
"Wolf of Wall Street"s ex wife Dr Nadine Macaluso, shares her story.
"Wolf of Wall Street"s ex wife Dr Nadine Macaluso, shares her story.
In this episode I speak with the inspirational Dr. Nadine Macaluso, known to her patients as Dr. Nae. Dr Nae is the real-life inspiration behind Naomi Belfort's character in "The Wolf of Wall Street." She survived a turbulent eight-year marriage to Jordan Belfort, marked by abuse, greed, and trauma.
Following her experiences, Dr. Macaluso relocated to California. Her journey of trauma and healing inspired her to return to school at age 39, where she earned her Master's in counseling and a Ph.D. in somatic psychotherapy. She further specialized with a two-year postdoctoral training in the Neuro-affective Relational Model (NARM).
As a therapist, Dr. Macaluso combines her education and personal experiences to help others heal from trauma. Her practice focuses on assisting patients in connecting with their authentic selves, fostering confidence, resilience, and agency. Dr. Macaluso firmly believes in the potential for post-traumatic growth, instilling hope in her patients and guiding them to reach their potential in life and love.
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Nova: Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Fake Love and Flying Monkeys! Today’s episode is particularly special, and I couldn’t be more thrilled about our guest. This incredible woman has an inspiring story of resilience, healing, and transformation. After enduring significant trauma and abuse, she turned her pain into purpose, becoming a therapist and even earning a PhD to help others on their own healing journeys.
Many of you might already be familiar with our guest, Dr. Nae, formerly Dr. Nadine Macaluso. Let me give you a little more background about her remarkable story. Dr. Nae is the real-life inspiration behind Naomi Belfort’s character in The Wolf of Wall Street. She survived a harrowing 8-year marriage to Jordan Belfort, filled with abuse, greed, and unimaginable trauma. After leaving that toxic relationship, she embarked on a journey of self-reclamation, moving to California and returning to school at the age of 39. She went on to earn her Master’s in Counselling, followed by a PhD in Somatic Psychotherapy, and has undergone extensive post-doctoral training in the neuro-affective relational model. Today, Dr. Nae dedicates her life to helping trauma survivors reconnect with their authentic selves, rebuild their confidence, and regain their personal agency. It is truly an honour to welcome Dr. Nae to the podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today!
Dr. Nae: Thank you, Nova! I’m absolutely thrilled to be here. And can I just say, I adore the name of your podcast!
Nova: Thank you! It’s quirky, isn’t it? People seem to connect with it.
Dr. Nae: Oh, absolutely. It’s perfect.
Nova: Let’s dive in! I remember watching The Wolf of Wall Street when it first came out and being completely floored by the story. I’d love for you to share with our listeners what it was like to have a character based on your life and that chapter of your story.
Dr. Nae: Sure. So yes, The Wolf of Wall Street is based on my life, but it’s told from the perspective of my ex-husband, Jordan. The depiction of those years was surprisingly accurate. Over 25 years ago, during my time with Jordan, I was deeply entrenched in a trauma bond—though I didn’t realise it back then. Terms like “trauma bond,” “narcissism,” and even “flying monkeys” weren’t part of the common lexicon at the time, not even in therapy. I was only 22 years old when I met Jordan, and like many narcissists, he was a master of love bombing. He swept me off my feet with gifts, flowers, and promises of an epic soulmate connection. It was intoxicating, and I fell for it completely.
Nova: At 22, why would you think someone was deceiving you?
Dr. Nae: Exactly. At that age, you have no reason to suspect someone would have such ulterior motives. But once we were married, the dynamic shifted drastically. That’s when the enmeshment, coercion, and control began.
Nova: How did you initially meet him?
Dr. Nae: It happened exactly like the movie portrays. I was at a party with my boyfriend at the time. It wasn’t quite as wild as the film suggests, but the energy was definitely off. People were acting strangely, and I later realised they were on Quaaludes. At one point, someone exposed themselves to me, which left me feeling so ashamed that I told my boyfriend we needed to leave. What I didn’t know at the time was that Jordan had already decided I was his next target. He pursued me relentlessly, and six months later, after I returned from a modelling trip, we went on our first date. From there, it was a whirlwind—and, eventually, a nightmare.
Nova: A nightmare, indeed. When did you start to realise the relationship was toxic?
Dr. Nae: The signs appeared about three months in. Jordan began making coercive statements, like, “I won’t date you if you don’t agree to marry me,” or “I won’t marry you unless you’ll have children with me.” I was 22—I wasn’t ready for marriage, let alone kids. But his persistence wore me down. At the time, I mistook his behaviour for love. I thought, He must love me so much to be this adamant. But when I resisted, his rage was overwhelming. It was terrifying, and eventually, I felt I had no choice but to comply.
Nova: It sounds like textbook coercive control. How did you reconcile the charming, love-bombing version of Jordan with this darker side?
Dr. Nae: That’s the essence of cognitive dissonance. On one hand, there was Romeo—the loving, charismatic person who swept me off my feet. On the other hand, there was Dirty John—the abusive, controlling man who terrified me. I constantly clung to the hope that Romeo would come back, even as Dirty John took over more and more.
Nova: And that hope can be so powerful, can’t it?
Dr. Nae: It’s like being hooked on a slot machine. You win just enough to keep playing, even though the losses far outweigh the gains. It’s an emotional rollercoaster that keeps you trapped.
Nova: How did he pressure you into having children?
Dr. Nae: I always wanted kids, but on my own terms. My parents divorced when I was six, so I’d promised myself I wouldn’t have children until I was at least 30 and in a stable marriage. But Jordan didn’t respect that. I ended up pregnant at our wedding after enduring two miscarriages. I love my children deeply and wouldn’t change having them for anything, but the timing and circumstances were entirely out of my control.
Nova: It’s devastating how narcissists strip away autonomy. Did he also weaponise your personality traits?
Dr. Nae: Oh, absolutely. I’m naturally empathetic, agreeable, and trusting—all traits that make me a good therapist now but made me a prime target for Jordan back then. He manipulated those qualities to control me, turning my strengths into vulnerabilities.
Nova: That’s such a common tactic. They praise your qualities at first, only to use them against you later.
Dr. Nae: Exactly. It wasn’t just physical or emotional abuse—it was systemic control designed to break me down. He used fear and manipulation to make me question my worth, my sanity, and my ability to leave.
Nova: Did he ever provoke you into reactive abuse?
Dr. Nae: Oh, all the time. He’d push me to my breaking point, and when I reacted, he’d twist the narrative to paint me as the abuser. It was a constant gaslighting cycle, which made me doubt everything about myself and the relationship.
Nova: It’s so insidious, and sadly, the courts often fail to understand the power imbalance in these dynamics.
Dr. Nae: That’s true. They focus on surface behaviours without considering the underlying power dynamics. That’s why education about trauma bonding and coercive control is so critical. Survivors need to understand what’s happening to reclaim their power and begin healing.
Nova: Were there any particularly difficult moments during your relationship that didn’t make it into the movie but could help other victims feel seen and validated?
Dr Nae: Oh, absolutely. The movie was told through his lens, which meant the narrative was naturally skewed to his version of events. A perfect example? There’s a scene where I supposedly throw water in his face. That never happened. I should have, but I didn’t. And there’s this storyline where I’m portrayed as being jealous of other women, and that’s what caused our arguments. That’s not true at all.
Nova: It’s typical of a narcissist to twist the story, isn’t it? They control the narrative, portraying themselves as the victim or hero and distorting the truth to suit their image.
Dr Nae: Exactly. Our arguments were never about other women. I wasn’t the jealous type, and honestly, I didn’t even know half of what he was doing behind my back. What I did confront him about was his drug addiction. That’s what scared me—for my safety, for my kids, and for him.
Nova: It’s so telling that he reframed your concerns about his addiction into some sort of jealousy-fuelled conflict. It diminishes the real issues and paints you as unreasonable.
Dr Nae: That’s exactly what he did. The book that inspired the movie and the movie itself twisted the reality of what happened. They portrayed our relationship as if it was full of mutual conflict, rather than addressing it for what it truly was: a relationship plagued by his abuse and addiction.
Nova: It’s heartbreaking how often victims of abuse are depicted as being complicit in their abuser’s behaviour or as if the toxicity was mutual. It’s so far from the truth.
Dr Nae: That’s right. The truth is, I wasn’t fighting with him about other women. Our conflicts were about his addiction. That was the core issue in our relationship, the thing that terrified me the most. And when he did get physical with me, it wasn’t because I threatened to take the kids away, as the movie suggests. It was because I told him I wouldn’t sit by and watch him destroy himself.
Nova: That must have taken incredible strength, standing up to him like that.
Dr Nae: It did, but at that point, I was desperate. I told him he needed to go to rehab or I was leaving. That was my boundary. And of course, he flipped the script. Instead of addressing his addiction, he portrayed me as this vengeful, scorned woman jealous of the attention he was getting from others.
Nova: It’s infuriating how narcissists create these false narratives to protect their egos. They often paint themselves as so desirable, as if their partner’s emotions revolve around them.
Dr Nae: Exactly. That’s such a good point. It was never about jealousy. It was about protecting my family. But narcissists excel at spinning the story to centre themselves and minimise their wrongdoing.
Nova: They do, and they’re masters at convincing others. I imagine his drug addiction must have overshadowed the abuse at times, making it even harder to recognise what was really happening.
Dr Nae: Absolutely. His addiction was so out of control that it became the primary focus. The abuse, while constant, felt secondary because I was in survival mode. And back then, I didn’t fully understand coercive control. I knew something was wrong, but I didn’t have the words to describe it.
Nova: That’s such an important point. Coercive control often masquerades as caring. It starts with, “I’m calling you 10 times a day because I love you,” or, “Let me handle your wardrobe—I just want to help.”
Dr Nae: Exactly. It’s insidious. It creeps in under the guise of love and concern, and by the time you realise it’s controlling behaviour, you’re already deeply entangled.
Nova: Was the physical violence the breaking point for you?
Dr Nae: It was one of them. But the final straw came after he got out of rehab. I tried to have a conversation with him about everything—the abuse, the addiction, the damage it had caused—and his response was, “It wasn’t that bad.” That callousness, that complete lack of empathy or remorse, was the moment I knew I was done.
Nova: That must have been devastating.
Dr Nae: It was. But when he was arrested and put on an ankle monitor, I saw it as my chance to escape. For the first time, the power dynamic shifted. He couldn’t hurt me anymore.
Nova: That’s so empowering, reclaiming your agency in that moment.
Dr Nae: It was. And while he tried to win me back, I held firm. I had reached my threshold.
Nova: Were you able to separate his addiction from his abusive behaviour, or did it all feel interconnected?
Dr Nae: It felt interconnected, but I did notice that he was better off drugs. That said, sobriety didn’t erase his controlling tendencies. Drugs don’t make an abuser; they can exacerbate abusive behaviours, but the abuse is rooted in the abuser’s personality and choices.
Nova: That’s such an important distinction. Too often, victims are told the abuse is caused by addiction or mental health issues, which shifts the blame away from the abuser.
Dr Nae: Exactly. And back then, the narrative around addiction and codependency was so harmful. I was constantly told I was codependent, that I needed to fix myself. But his abuse and addiction were never my fault.
Nova: That’s such a critical message. Abuse is always the fault of the abuser, full stop.
Dr Nae: Absolutely. And that’s why I wrote my book—to challenge these stigmas and empower victims to understand what they’ve been through.
Nova: Speaking of your book, can you tell us more about it?
Dr Nae: Of course. It’s not a memoir—it’s more of a clinical guide. I draw on both my personal experiences and my professional practice to break down the dynamics of trauma bonds. The book follows four trauma-bonded couples, explaining what trauma bonds are, the personality traits of pathological partners, and the emotional scars victims endure.
Nova: That sounds incredibly insightful.
Dr Nae: Thank you. I also include practical advice on how to leave safely and, most importantly, how to heal. Throughout the book, I weave in grounding and breathing exercises, reminding readers to take their time and prioritise their emotional safety.
Nova: That’s so thoughtful. Healing is such a delicate process.
Dr Nae: It is. And what’s been most rewarding is hearing from readers who say the book has validated their experiences, given them language for what they went through, and, in some cases, even saved their lives.
Nova: That’s incredible. Education truly is empowering.
Dr Nae: It is. When we can name something, we can start to tame it. And I think we both share a commitment to helping people break free from abusive relationships and rebuild their lives.
Nova: Absolutely. It’s a privilege to do this work. Thank you so much for sharing your story and your expertise, Dr Nae. I know it’s going to resonate with so many of our listeners.